god is not Great Chapter 16: Is Religion Child Abuse

This chapter, which is almost a direct continuation of the previous chapter focuses largely on the things that religions do to children. Overall, Hitchens makes some very good points, although my larger personal opinion is noted in a recent entry, Hitchens goes much further than I did.

He starts with the psychological, delving into the issue of things like Hell. Terrorizing children witht he prospect of eternal torture and damnation for disobedience and religious infidelity. I too wonder how many children have been harmed by these and similar practices by well meaning, and not so well meaning authority figures.

As Hitchens demonstrates, the institutions of religion have long understood how impressionable young children are, and that the key to having a hold on the adult is to indoctrinate him as a child. Overall, when it comes to the psychological damage section Hitchens writes a good piece, but in this exercise was well overshadowed by Dawkins in The God Delusion.

Regardless, Hitchens goes next into discusssing the physical abuses children suffer as a consequence of religions. He points out, of course, the issue of circumcision first as it is perhaps the most obvious. I can't help but agree with Hitchens, particularly with regards to infants. There is no good reason to mutilate a child's genitalia without their having a say in it, or even more importantly, without their even ever having known of the option to say no. It seems immoral to make a decision like that which is basically irreversible.

One place that Hitchens goes that is not covered in others (to my memory) is the masturbation taboo and the psychological and sexual repression that comes with it. Overall, a small section but somewhat poignant.

Overall the chapter didn't provide alot that was new, or illuminate much. It was a good read, but I would still stand by my personal opinion as stated previously.

Religion as Child Abuse. My own thoughts

I wanted to discuss my opinion on this argument separate from my analysis of Hitchens' presentation of it in god is not Great. This is mostly because I think it deserves more space than being intertwined with my analysis. Hopefully I will be posting a review of that chapter tomorrow, but I was inspired to write this instead for today.

The argument that religion being put forth to children is child abuse, and I am very much of two minds about that position. Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion presented the argument in a way so as to demonstrate that there are no "Catholic Children," or "Marxist Children," and such trying to justify that religious indoctrination of children is immoral and abusive. I agree with this insofar as I think deep indoctrination of children into just about anything is wrongheaded and an affront to reason as it pushes the child in a prechosen direction before they have developed the reasoning skills to comprehend the enormity of the decision.

But then I also have to disagree. Indoctrination is a loaded word in this case, and is particularly poignant when applied to religion. That said, at some point we have to think about where can we draw a line at what values and beliefs parents can instill in their own children. While I, and no doubt many people reading this, view religion as a hostile and caustic influence in the world the parents of the religious children literally believe they giving them "truth" whatever that may be. The same goes for a parent instilling capitalistic values, or stoic values or, whatever values, beliefs, and opinions you may wish to look at.

Do we draw the line of abuse at obviously harmful values, like racism and bigotry? Or do we start dictating the majority status quo with the ability to decide what is abusive? Take it to the courts? But any of these options bothers me. I'm not currently a parent, but someday I intend to be; I would not want the government or some other external authority telling me I could not teach my own child from my own experiences and values. So i'm really at a loss here. We can't just limit it to religion since that's far too narrow, and hardly the only indoctrinating philosophy category available.

I personally think it to be impossible to not indoctrinate children, even unintentionally. If, as parents, one does not teach their child, the child won't learn anything. Its also natural that in any environment a young child will learn by adopting something from the actions, words, and habits of his or her parents. Children from different backgrounds will obviously develop differently in this respect, but we can't really expect every religious parent to stop all religious habits to protect their child and give him a free development without influence. Its not realistic, and its questionable whether it would be moral.

So, is religion child abuse? Possibly. But I personally don't see that there's anything that can be done to stop it as a whole without violating a thousand other rights, and that I'm not ok with.

Arrogant Atheists Indeed

Atheists, probably more than any other demographic, get tarred with the epithet of arrogance. Its no mystery why this is the case, particularly with such outspoken famous atheists such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens who are so unapologetically atheistic (or antitheistic in Hitchens' case) that their confidence comes across as arrogance to those who do not share their views. Their being British doesn't help them in the States as British people are regrettably already too often smeared with an unjust label of intellectual snobbery.

But let's look at the bigger picture on rality. Atheism is a skeptical view at its heart. Atheists (at least intelligent atheists) do not claim a perfect knowledge of any of the following:

1: Is there a god and/or gods?
2: What Caused the Universe to Spring Into Being?
3: What Happens After We Die?

Atheists try and answer as best we can, and to that end we end up with plenty of "likely's" "probably's" and "I thinks" which is in stark contrast to the surety of the monotheists who claim to -know-. Now, this is not universal. Many monotheists simply claim it is what they believe, and hedge in many of the same ways as we atheists do. But the ones who claim to know, like Ray Comfort for example, are all too willing to call atheists arrogant (or insane*) for what we know to the best of our ability through reasoning and science, while they claim to know with absolute surety on the basis of their own personal convictions and no real evidence outside of a highly flawed book dating anywhere from 1400-2500 years ago (pick your poison).

And we're the arrogant ones. Ok, right, gotcha. There area arrogant people on all sides of the fence and in all walks of life. But when it comes to theological views (or lakc thereof) it certainly isn't the atheists whose beliefs are on their own arrogant. The only reason the theists consider it arrogant is because it offends their religious sensibilities that we not only don't believe in their sky daddy, but are loud about it, and proud of our atheism. I guess when you have a good argument it can seem arrogant.

*Dawkins has certainly said the same of theists, so this doesn't really offend me, but the theist grounding for such an assertion is so weak that it is basically laughable.

The Sincerest Form of Flattery

Apparently this has been around for a couple of years, but is new to me. Seriously though. Couldn't think of anything more original? Its pretty much an exact imitation of the Atheist Out Campaign. It smacks of despair, and a lack of creativity. And lets be honest, the Out Campaign really isn't that "creative" to begin with, but at least it was the original.

Like being an "out" Christian is an oddity anywhere in the English speaking world to begin with.

The Constitution Doesn't Apply to Richard Dawkins?

Remember, if you're an Atheist and in the bible belt, you may potentially have your right of free speech attacked. By your legislature.

I consistently love just how the crazy creationists are all about "academic freedom" when it comes to crazy ideas like ID, but as soon as it's a vocal, unabashed atheist doing it for evolution and natural selection, suddenly its worthy of wasting government funds in a time of recession to investigate Dawkins, who just happens to have waived his speaking fee for the engagement.

Could it be more asinine? They'll likely waste more money in man hours investigating this than Dawkins' original fee would have been had he actually taken payment. I've no doubt these tools wouldn't lift a finger if William Dembski were speaking, despite his complete incompetence.

My conclusion? They're scared. They are terrified of the change in attitudes in this country towards secularism, and terrified that atheists are not only becoming far more visible in society... but people now listen to them. We're still far from the majority, but this is a minor thing. Atheists have continually become a larger and larger sect of the vocal influential population, particularly in the sciences, and people who don't really understand the science being intolerant of its implications.

As if it wasn't bad enough that Oklahoma legislators tried to issue a verbal condemnation against Dawkins, this is just embarrassing. I'm glad I only live in Texas where they only fire teachers for being Atheists.

Late to the party: Deus non magnum est

I'm picking up a copy of Christopher Hitchens' polemic God is not Great tomorrow, and plan to be doing a chapter by chapter review of it on here.

I enjoy Hitchens' speaking style and dry wit in debate. I know alot of people find him abrasive and more than a little obnoxious. i don't dispute this at all. He has some moments where he goes a bit far in my opinion. However, he has been a forceful, outspoken antitheist, and I highly respect what he's been trying to accomplish. Admittedly he seems at least a little drunk in most of the television interviews (not debates) I've seen him in, but I'm curious to see how his writing turns out.

Having already finished The God Delusion I'm excited to get into other atheist writers' takes on polemic and even incendiary writing. What I'd really like to read is Atheism Advanced , but I really can't afford a book coming only in hardcover and may have to wait. Sadness.